This is a real transcript of a chat conversation between the Agents of GUARD, about writer David S. Goyer’s controversial statements about comic books, comic book fans, and She-Hulk. The people are real. The names have not been changed to conceal their identity. Also, just tons of profanity. Like, everywhere.
Patrick: Hey guys, I know we have repeated this ad nauseum but seriously Fuck Goyer.
Earl: Shit. More news? Or are we talking about that Title.
Patrick: No, he was on a podcast where he shit all over She-Hulk, female comic fans, and the comic industry on a whole.
Nathan: Goyer is a festering Goyer.
Earl: What. A. Dick. What podcast?
I’ll listen on the way to rehearsal. Then I can decide how much piss I’m going to force feed him when I get the chance.
Nathan: The host seems to be a douche, too.
Justin: The host co-wrote The Hangover part 2 and 3 as well as Scary Movie 3 and 4. Directed Superhero Movie….so yeah…he’s a total douche.
Nathan: Oh man I have no respect for that douche. FUCK HIM.
Patrick: God, so much awful in one place. I’m surprised there wasn’t a douche bag singularity.
Nathan: There was definitely a huge Black Hole of Suck.
Earl: God, that sounds like a complete douche. Shut up and let Conan woman talk.
Aaron: Can someone share the link? I’d like to listen to it and become filled with righteous fury later.
Patrick: I think they took it down. It might still be on iTunes though.
Aaron: Aww, don’t make me search for it.
Bobby: Okay, Goyer is a dick bag. I’m drum major of that parade. And he certainly said some stupid shit about She-Hulk. However I don’t know if he deserves being crucified for it, which is currently what’s happening. He said a dumb thing off the top of his head; he wasn’t exactly chaining women to the oven.
All I’m saying is there are much better reasons to crucify David Goyer.
Aaron: Bobby, he also implied that anyone who reads comics never gets laid.
Justin: To me, this conversation with Craig Mazin is just a couple of bros just talking. Goyer, despite how he wrote Man of Steel, is in fact a comic book guy. The thing is he reads books like Batman, Ghost Rider, Blade, etc.
Comic fans are always self deprecating, and I think the comment he made about people who read comics and never get laid is part of that self-deprecation
I made a semi joke on Facebook about me and a couple of co-workers (guys who read comics like me) talking about the Super Bowl. I made a light joke about a couple of nerds talking about football. I thought it was funny. I then found out I pissed off some friends who like both comics and football, wondering where that stereotype came from and were actually offended by my comment.
I sadly was just adding to the stereotype.
Yeah, Goyer said some REALLY….REALLY stupid things today, but yeah, the guy doesn’t need to be crucified.
Earl: Pontius Earlate: Crucify him!
Patrick: I disagree because if it had been self-deprecating he would have included himself in the group. It very much sounded like he felt above that group of geeks.
Justin: To be fair I did not listen to the podcast. It was obviously a slow news day since I saw this brought up EVERYWHERE.
I do think there’s something to be said that ironically yesterday was also the day they announced that title of Man of Steel 2 is now Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice but all the talk was rightfully on Goyer’s comments.
Bobby: Very slow news day. Again, I’m not defending Goyer, but this culture of “I’m offended, burn the witch” is getting out of hand.
Justin: Let’s keep in mind that Goyer will be writing Wonder Woman’s film introduction.
Bobby: Goyer is terrible because he’s demonstrably a bad writer. I’ve seen his bad writing. I’m not saying he isn’t being a dick, but I’m just growing weary of seeing the torches and pitchforks when people say something that isn’t 100% PC.
Patrick: The reason I’m annoyed is that this is the man responsible for providing our content. If he looks down on that content and thumbs his nose at the fans, how good a job is he really going to do?
So instead of someone who is passionate about the material, we get a peddler, doling out garbage then laughing at us, the fans for consuming it.
Bobby: Goyer is awful, no argument there. I wasn’t really talking about the “comic book fans” part. The quote I keep seeing come up is about She-Hulk, and that Goyer is a sexist fuckhead who should die in a fire.
Goyer is a bad writer who said a dumb thing about She-Hulk. He should be ostracized for being a bad writer, not for being sexist. That’s what my point is.
Aaron: Be that as it may Bobby, no one in Hollywood gets fired for being a bad writer. If sales are good he’ll continue to work on all of Justice League. Activism might be getting out of hand, but if that leads to people boycotting the film all the better in my opinion. People have the right to believe whatever they want, I we have the right to not buy their products. The saddest thing about this is that I doubt it’ll have any effect on sales.
Bobby: A) Boycotts almost never work. And B) I wasn’t talking about firing anyone or telling them they can’t have their opinions.
I was just commenting on the culture of offense. It’s absolutely people’s right to get offended, but it’s my right to scoff at them and tell them to chill out.
Patrick: A) Ender’s Game and B) Donald Sterling
Bobby: A) Ender’s Game is one of the most successful books of all time. B) I’m not sure what your point is.
And as a corollary to Ender’s Game – that’s my problem exactly. Boycotting a work because you don’t like the workman is dumb. If the work is bad/offensive/whatever, then fine. Orson Scott Card’s opinions don’t make Ender’s Game any less of a beautiful book.
Patrick: The book yes, the movie was rather lack luster and Donald Sterling was fired for his opinion which just goes to show there is finally a level of ass hole you can achieve that will get you fired.
Bobby: I love every one of Tom Cruise’s movies. That doesn’t mean I like him or agree with his insanity.
My only point is this: Judge the work. And also, I’m not saying Goyer can’t be fired for stupid comments. He absolutely can. I just think that happens to cater to the culture of offense. He should be fired for being awful and for producing shit.
Patrick: I’m going to have to disagree because he is in charge of showing a point of view to a wide audience. A blockbuster that shows women as being lesser is imprinting that message is society.
Bobby: If the movie shows that, yes.
Patrick: But is clearly is because Wonder Woman’s name is conspicuously absent from the title.
Aaron: So what are you saying Bobby, that we should wait for him to have control of Wonder Woman and see if it’s offensive before rallying to get him fired?
Earl: I haven’t finished the podcast yet.
Aaron: Well Pat, all accounts seem to think Gal Gadot is going to be appearing as her civilian alias. Plus that’s the only picture we’ve seen of her on the set.
Bobby: No. Goyer is a bad writer, and he should get fired for that. I’m saying that because a person made an off-hand comment on a podcast does not make them a sexist who will only imprint their sexist viewpoint on all of mankind.
You’re actually making my point by taking one tiny comment and extrapolating it into a worldview.
That’s the culture of offense I’m talking about.
Aaron: But it’s hard to separate an offhand comment from a world view. He could be regurgitating the culture, yes, but an abundance of these kinds of comments leads credence to that idea.
Bobby: It’s easy to separate an off-hand comment from a world view when you remember perspective.
If you combed through everything I’ve ever said, you could find something shitty/racist/sexist. I’m sure of it. That applies to everyone. Does that make me shitty/racist/sexist?
Earl: I think Goyer probably deep fries baby seal testicles and eats them like chicken mcnuggets. With sweet and sour sauce made from quokka blood.
Bobby: Heh. I don’t doubt that.
Aaron: I don’t know what quokka blood is.
Bobby: A quokka is a small bipedal sentient pastry.
Bobby: I want one.
Earl, get me one.
You have three days.
Earl: I will acquire one as soon as this hangover gets out of my fucking head.
Anyway. Sorry. Goyer. Asshole? Genius? Dark Archon?
Bobby: Asshole. Mutalisk. Potentially.
Patrick: I think if you make a sexist comment publicly people are allowed to call you a douche canoe.
Aaron: Goyer will never be fired for writing poorly scripted movies that make hundreds of millions of dollars. That being said, if you want to defend his comment as being an isolated one in poor taste, then find evidence of him portraying women in a positive light. From what I’ve seen Goyer has disdain for women and geeks that matches his comments and these comments give direct, rather than inferred, proof of these facts.
Bobby: I’m not saying people can’t call him anything. I’m Mister Freedom. I’m simply using my freedom to state the wisdom of perspective.
Also, I’m not defending Goyer.
Patrick: You’re allowed to say anything you want forever, that’s free speech. But I’m not even going to feel bad when I call you out on it.
Bobby: He’s an asshole (in Marty McFly intonation)
My personal pet peeve is the media (which now includes everyone with an internet connection) essentially being on a 24/7 hunt for “the next person we should be mad at.”
“I’m offended by X” is my least favorite phrase in human history. Maybe second after, “I’m going to papercut your urethra.”
Patrick: And I will concede that is really shitty. People should not call something offensive because it fits a formula.
Aaron: Then how should people react to offensive comments? Say “That’s just his opinion” and move on?
Patrick: But if someone is in a public forum their comments are not protected in any shape or form.
Bobby: Yes. 100% yes. Constantly “calling the banners” to try to get X fired or removed or banned or whatever is ridiculous. I never said the comments were protected. I’m saying we’ve made a hobby out of being offended.
Aaron: They are legally protected because they’re too rich to sue them. What course of action does the public have to respond to such outrage?
Patrick: But then that simply covers the people that are genuinely offended. If a lady feels affronted by Goyer’s comments she has every right to call for a boycott.
Bobby: Well, I would start with the word “outrage.” Is it warranted? Sexual slavery is an outrage. David Goyer saying She-Hulk has boobs is not an outrage.
Aaron: He said a little more than that about “Slut-Hulk.”
Patrick: Saying all she was was wank bait kind of is.
Bobby: Okay, let me stop you there Patrick: You keep telling me people have the “right” to do things. I’m not saying they don’t. I’m not calling for legislation. I’m suggesting a wise course of action versus an unwise one.
Saying She-Hulk is wank-bait is not an outrage. It’s a dumb thing to say that shows Goyer doesn’t read She-Hulk.
Aaron: I understand that Bobby. What I don’t understand is what you think the wise course of action is when people say dumb shit?
Bobby: Ignore them. Look into your own history and say, “Have I said dumb things? Do I deserve to be crucified for them?”
Aaron: When I say dumb shit I expect to be called out on it. Otherwise I’m going to keep saying dumb shit.
Bobby: Being called out is one thing.
“Hey, Goyer, what did you mean by that? Because that sounded really ignorant” versus “GOYER IS A SEXIST WHOREMONSTER. HE’S EVERYTHING WRONG WITH THE PATRIARCHY.”
Patrick: I’m going to step back from this argument. I don’t want to have a debate over my mobile.
Aaron: I see your point. So we call him out on his nutzo comments and wait for a response. I can agree to that over ignoring the problem.
Patrick, get onto a laptop or something.
I like debate it helps me understand people.
Bobby: Huge fan.
Earl: I want to make an info graphic called the Dick Continuum. At one end, Gandhi… Who is actually a dick in Civ V, I hear. On the other end: Hitler. Or something.
Bobby: Lest we forget, Gandhi was all about armed violence if the situation called for it.
Aaron: Gandhi is always a dick in Civilization. Something about being a pacifist leader turns you into an unreasonable asshole.